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Tuesday, May 25, 2010

Question in response to a personal email: If Christ was not speaking of Peter as the Rock, why change his name

From Simon to Peter( Petra-the rock). I mean wasn't that making things confusing? Why change his name to mean "the Rock" and then say "You are Peter and on this rock I will build my Church." Surely He knew that would be confusing to us. In truth I take what He said as it was said. Peter(Petra) was the chosen Apostle to lead.
Question in response to a personal email: If Christ was not speaking of Peter as the Rock, why change his name
It is biblical style of narration.
Reply:What is confusing about it? Rock = foundation. Pretty common saying.
Reply:Jesus was talking about Himself when He said "And I say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it"..........supporting scripture can be found in 1 Peter 2:7
Reply:perhaps it meant that Simon was stubborn, "head like a rock"... just a nickname that got over-interpreted
Reply:Mat 16:15 He said to them, But you, whom do you say Me to be?


Mat 16:16 And answering, Simon Peter said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.


Mat 16:17 And answering, Jesus said to him, Blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah, for flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but My Father in Heaven.


Mat 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against her.





Peter here is "Petros" which means:


Apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock; as a name, Petrus, an apostle: - Peter, rock.





The "rock" the Church is built on is "Petra" which means:


Feminine of the same as Petros; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock.





So, Peter was a small rock, the foundation of the Church was a mass of rocks, big difference.


I think Christ was saying the rock the Church was built on was Christ himself, the chief cornerstone. Also, on the confession Peter made in vs. 16.
Reply:Peter is the rock... I wonder what it was like being Jesus's friend like that- how cool :-D
Reply:Simon/Peter is an amalgum of Simon Magus and the Peter from the Jerusalem church that Paul had nothing nice to say anything about.





His name was not changed, but instead, the story of the name change is an attempt to syncretize Jewish and gentile Christianity.
Reply:The Greek text is a translation of Jesus' words, which were actually spoken in Aramaic. Aramaic only had one word for rock, kephas (which is why Peter is often called Cephas in the Bible). The word Kephas in Aramaic means "huge rock." The Aramaic word for "little stone" is "evna," and Peter was not called "Evna" or "Envas" or anything like that. In Aramaic, Jesus said "You are Peter (Kephas) and upon this rock (kephas) I will build my Church." The metaphor worked well in Aramaic where nouns are neither feminine or masculine, but in Greek, the noun "rock" was feminine, and therefore unsuitable as a name for Peter. So the Aramaic word Kephas was translated to the masculine name Petros when it referred to Peter, and to the feminine noun petra when it referred to the rock. In ancient Koine Greek, petra and petros were total synonyms, unlike modern Attic Greek and unlike Ionic Greek which was about 400 year before Christ.
Reply:Jesus asked Peter a question, who am i? Peter said, Jesus the son of God. Upon this rock I will build my church. The answer is the teachings of Jesus. On Christ the solid rock i stand all other ground is sinking sand.
Reply:You can not draw an inference from what Jesus called Peter. The answer to the mystery lies in the question which he asked Peter...Whom do you say that I am? How Peter arrived at the answer is what the church is built upon. This means to determine the answer is what made Peter have the character of a rock...and which will cause you to have the same character with the results..."the gates of hell shall not prevail".
Reply:I think you better recheck your Greek, the word is 'petros' which means little stone. If you continue reading you will see that the 2nd mentioned rock is 'petra' which means rock. Jesus was clearly saying, Peter upon the fact that you just stated, verse 16, that I am the Christ the son of the living God, upon that fact I will build my church. There is no hint of Peter receiving supremacy in these verses, contrary to catholic doctrine. In fact, no where in scripture is Peter given leadership if any had it, which they didn't, it would have probably been James. Hope this helps.
Reply:Matthew 16 -- Did Jesus Build His Church Upon Peter?





Matthew 16 and Jesus' promise to build his church upon "this rock" is a favorite proof-text for Catholics and it was discussed extensively. Rutland argued that when Jesus stated to Peter "you are the rock and it is upon this rock" he was not speaking of himself or some confession Peter made, but of Peter. Rutland supported his argument by quoting from several Protestant commentators and claiming this was the position of most Bible scholars.





Greeson responded by pointing out that Peter could not be the rock Jesus promised to build his church upon because two different words are used. Peter is masculine from Petros and refers to a small stone, such as what one would hold in their hands. Whereas, "upon this rock" is a different word. It is the feminine form of the word, which is petra, and it refers to a large foundation. The Scriptures state that "there is no other foundation other than that which is laid, Jesus Christ" (1 Cor. 3:11).





Rutland made two arguments in answer. First, he argued that Jesus spoke in Aramaic and that there was no difference in Peter and "this rock" in that language. Second, he argued that the difference in the Greek was not "theologically significant."





Greeson pointed out that Aramaic did contain masculine and feminine forms of the term for "rock." Further, since the Holy Spirit gave Matthew two different words that it certainly was significant. Greeson clearly demonstrated the significance of the difference in English using the sentence, "Thou art Mr. Rock and upon Mrs. Rock I will build my church."





Rutland also argued that Jesus giving the keys to Peter was a reference to Isaiah 22:15-24. He suggested that Peter's authority was demonstrated in Acts 2 by telling the disciples one had to be chosen to take Judas' office.





Greeson went to the early church fathers and demonstrated that there was no "unanimous consent" that Jesus built the church on Peter but that many of them stated otherwise.





Papal Succession





Rutland left the Scriptures and went to the early "church father" Irenaeus, the bishop of Lyons in 178 A.D. to support the Catholic claim of papal succession. Greeson responded by pointing out first that Irenaeus did not provide scriptural proof of papal succession. Further, Irenaeus was not authoritative as he was not an apostle nor did he claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit. Greeson took exception to Rutland's interpretation of Irenaeus' comments. He argued that Irenaeus was not and did establish either the doctrine of the supremacy of the Roman bishop nor papal succession, but Irenaeus used the Scriptures as his authority to refute the Gnostics.
Reply:I'd have to agree with you, but there seem to be a lot of people who won't just on the basis that they are prejudiced toward the Catholic church.
Reply:yes, you are so right Debra. Jesus is not the author of confusion. That is the M.O. of the Evil One.
Reply:that's why I chose Peter as my confirmation name.








He showed human frailty and extraordinary insight.
Reply:You are preaching to the choir here. In addition, why give him the keys to the kingdom?
Reply:Yes, Peter meaning "Rock" was chosen by Jesus to be the first pope.





Read these web pages for more information:





http://www.catholic.com/library/Peter_an...





http://www.catholic.com/library/Peter_th...





Also, in Scripture there is mentioned different foundations for the Church...Christ..Peter...the apostles.





As for those saying that Peter was a "little stone" in contrast with Jesus, I suggest you click on the second link I provided.

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